Exploring the convergence of business acumen and spiritual depth, we are thrilled to have Richard Cunningham join us from Faith Driven Investor and Entrepreneur. Our conversation traverses the transformative shift from traditional missions to faith-driven entrepreneurship, emphasizing the power of commerce as a vehicle for sharing the Gospel. Richard opens up about his journey, revealing the impact of Christian leadership in the marketplace and recounting the inspiring testimonies of entrepreneurs who are integrating their faith with their business pursuits.
We focus our conversation on the principles of faith-driven investing and the profound influence of stewardship in business. We touch on the dynamics of integrating beliefs with professional responsibilities, as seen in events like South by Southwest and the Faith on the Field panel discussions. Moreover, we shine a light on the Faith Driven network, a beacon for those seeking to align their entrepreneurial and investment endeavors with their Christian faith, underscoring the power of content, community, and connections. Join us for a compelling episode that invites you to consider how your career and investments can be an act of worship and a means of building God's Kingdom.
Follow @unreachedpodcast on Instagram for more!
Exploring the convergence of business acumen and spiritual depth, we are thrilled to have Richard Cunningham join us from Faith Driven Investor and Entrepreneur. Our conversation traverses the transformative shift from traditional missions to faith-driven entrepreneurship, emphasizing the power of commerce as a vehicle for sharing the Gospel. Richard opens up about his journey, revealing the impact of Christian leadership in the marketplace and recounting the inspiring testimonies of entrepreneurs who are integrating their faith with their business pursuits.
We focus our conversation on the principles of faith-driven investing and the profound influence of stewardship in business. We touch on the dynamics of integrating beliefs with professional responsibilities, as seen in events like South by Southwest and the Faith on the Field panel discussions. Moreover, we shine a light on the Faith Driven network, a beacon for those seeking to align their entrepreneurial and investment endeavors with their Christian faith, underscoring the power of content, community, and connections. Join us for a compelling episode that invites you to consider how your career and investments can be an act of worship and a means of building God's Kingdom.
Follow @unreachedpodcast on Instagram for more!
In Revelation 7, john shares his vision of heaven, with members from every tribe, tongue, people and language standing in the throne room before the Lamb. Yet today there are still over 7,000 unreached people groups around the world. For the last six years, my family and friends have been on a journey to find, vet and fund the task remaining. Come journey with us to the ends of the earth as we share the supernatural stories of God at work for the men and women he has called to reach the unreached.
Speaker 2:Hello friends and welcome back to the Unreached podcast, dustin Elliott here, your host, I've got Clint Hudson with me on the mic today and we have our really good friend Richard Cunningham in town. Richard is with Faith Driven Investor, faith Driven Entrepreneur. But my story with Richard goes back several years before he joined that organization. We actually did a discipleship group together several years before he joined that organization. We actually did a discipleship group together several years ago. We've been working on some of the young men around the Austin Texas and Central Texas and Waco and Baylor and UT and all this area together for a while.
Speaker 2:You know lately, if you're listening to the series, we did a lot of season one episodes around traditional missions, traditional missionaries and telling stories and even some of season two as well.
Speaker 2:But when you look at kind of the Scott Eloquin episodes and Andrew Scott episodes, we've kind of shifted a little bit to kind of highlight businesses' missions and what does it look like for Christian-led founders and Christian business people to live out their faith in the workplace among the nations 24-7, 365.
Speaker 2:We've been trying to kind of get into some nations through a back door or through a top window. When the front door is wide open, it's wide open for business. It's wide open for commerce. It's wide open for folks, maybe in the Western world, who have a real skill set for building businesses and bringing economy to a part of the world that it may not be there yet, but we can go in and do that effectively as our true identity, not trying to be something that gets us in and then be somebody else, and there's a way to go about that, and so Richard's in a really, really cool seat. He gets to listen to Christian-led founders pitch their companies to investors potential investors through the Faith Driven Network, and he's listened I would assume, to hundreds at this point, and so I'm so excited to hear from your seat what is going on in this world. Before we get there, though, let's just start with Richard Cunningham. Tell us a little bit about your background and your story.
Speaker 3:Well, gents, it's great to be here. This is going to be a blast, and I'm honored to be on the podcast. I listened to some of that Andrew episode too and I just loved what he was talking about. Hey, the front door is wide open, so pumped to get down there in a little bit. But yeah, richard Cunningham, from Austin, texas, I went to Austin High School, which is pretty special. Man grew up with just amazing parents, believer home, older brother, younger sister just fell in love with the Lord. Young definitely fell into a lot of like the legalistic, though my faithless performance it helped me look really good and that will make sense here in a second when I say I was a sports player and so I played a ton of sports growing up and so it was just. You know, when you look at the Enneagram, one through nine, I'm like your quintessential type three achiever that just desperately needs Jesus Dustin's giving me a little like, I think me too kind of situation going on.
Speaker 3:Another three here.
Speaker 4:I'm an Enneagram seven.
Speaker 3:I'm just happy to be here. I love it, so is my wife, and they're the best. I think the three is we need Jesus the most, no doubt, but anyway. So grew up in a Christian home but quickly realized oh, I can kind of leverage this faith thing to make Richard Cunningham look like a good kid and the Lord was so kind to me in my story Went off to college to play baseball at Baylor University up in Waco and grew up a diehard Longhorn. So it's just worth saying that, you know, being an Austin kid but made the full, you know, 180 conversion to green and gold.
Speaker 3:When I went up to Waco and that was where, you know, in those college formative days it really started to become apparent to me of like, hey, the chameleon double lifestyle of Richard the performer and Richard behind closed doors. Um, that's just not. There's no freedom found there. And just in college was able to truly start the practice of confession and repentance and just falling more deeply in love with who Jesus was, as the person, and not just kind of the broader Christian faith, if you will, and using the Christian faith to almost like bolster your own reputation. And had a really remarkable experience in college at Baylor playing baseball, played ball there for five years, studied finance undergrad, got my MBA while I was there. We could debate it's probably the most meaningless MBA of all time because I had no work experience in the middle, but it allowed me to stay eligible and keep playing center field for the Bears. And then the coolest thing that happened to me in college is, as Baylor kids do, I met my bride, and so you didn't go to Baylor if you didn't leave with your spouse, and so, like I checked that one off too, and so Marshall is her name.
Speaker 3:And we've now been back in Austin for a number of years, married, no babies yet, but we're having a blast just living in this city, going to church in downtown Austin and just trying to be a force for the kingdom. Not that God needs our hands, but just the opportunity to participate in all that he's doing. And it's just growing. Bustling city is such a joy. My wife and I both work in that finance sector so we get to interface with all types of business leaders on the investment side, folks looking to start businesses on the entrepreneur side and on the venture building side. She worked for a really neat organization called National Christian Foundation for a number of years before transferring into venture capital. Dustin, you mentioned a little bit. I worked for dimensional fund advisors in the kind of the classic asset management space, but for now transferring into what is faith-driven investor and faith-driven entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we got to know Marshall really well through National Christian Foundation and so many connections there. But Ryan Asunto, the local leader and president for NCF, is a very good friend of all of ours. My wife and I for years have done our giving through our donor advice fund with NCF and they've been a great, great partner. We don't monetize this podcast at all, but I will fully endorse that service. Right, cash is the least tax-efficient gift you can make. If you're hearing this and you're giving cash in any form, you really need to reevaluate your plan. Think about how you could use appreciated stock or other assets to do your giving. And that's a little one-off. We won't chase that rabbit too far, but NCF is a great partner to really maximize your giving dollars and kind of take some of what Uncle Sam might get and repurpose that to where you feel called to really be helping. Right, yeah, and Marshall helped us immensely and I adore your bride, as you know, and I'm grateful she. Let us borrow you for a few minutes today.
Speaker 3:I could go on and on about how amazing National Christian Foundation is, but it's going to be a lot of. The heart of this podcast is hey, let's use the common grace and the providence of what the Lord has given us through business, innovation and tactics like strategic tax thinking to further the kingdom.
Speaker 3:And one of those being hey, look at what you own and how you own it. Where are tax efficiencies not being maximized? Put those inside of donor-advised funds and then just go wild for kingdom purposes and just yeah, what a special organization. I just love the services they're providing. So, yeah, marshall loved starting her career there, because what a way for us as a marriage to get seeped into this DNA of people just nonstop talking about generosity and just thinking about how the biblical message of generosity seeps into all of our lives. And for God so loved the world that he what Gave. Yeah, and it's imperative to our Christian faith. And so what an awesome place for your spouse to start a career, because it's really kind of given us a foundation for what's happened next in our marriage.
Speaker 2:Let's start, let's pull on the thread of the sports world first, and then we can kind of go more into the venture and finance world. And how is this all? Growing kingdom among the nations and unreached people groups et cetera.
Speaker 2:But, clint, I don't think our listeners now know, and probably not a lot of people at our church know you've been our worship pastor here for several years but you have a massive background in sports yourself. You were chaplain for the Carolina Panthers and you've discipled guys through sports and particularly in football. Why don't you tell us a little bit kind of set the table because you and Richard both him through more FCA and some other organizations y'all both had a lot of impact in that world.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Richard said it really well in his intro just about the trap that you fall into when a performance-based identity and sports is one of the primary ways that you can gain that, because that's the first, uh, the first time that you ever either run out of the lights or you're playing baseball, playing football, whatever, but everybody claps for you when you do well and they don't clap for you when you don't.
Speaker 4:And so that's like, okay, I'm worth more to X amount of people or whatever, whenever I do a good job, and so it's really difficult. And so I was a worship pastor in Charlotte, north Carolina, for several years and I just had this moment on stage I'll never forget it, where I backed up off the mic, congregation singing. I'm like man, this is so great. And I just felt the Lord say, hey, would you stop doing this if I asked you to? And what he was revealing to me is that I had fallen into a performance-based trap. So, amber, my wife and I started praying about God. We're going to go into missions.
Speaker 4:It's so funny that here we are doing this podcast now, but I mean, this was 10, 15 years ago. For me, I'm like I'm going to the mission field, but specifically, we pray that God would break our heart for a people group, a people group that needed to be able to hear the gospel and God, for whatever reason he knows and one day I'm going to ask him God broke my heart for athletes to get trapped in a performance-based identity, and I think it's because he thought it would be funny to send a skinny jeans-wearing worship leader into a locker room full of these giant behemoth men, but God opened a door for me to be a chaplain for the Panthers.
Speaker 4:I have walked alongside of athletes in so many different sports for years. I still do. One of the guys that I got an opportunity to walk alongside of this past year just won a Super Bowl with the Chiefs, gave his life to Jesus earlier in the year, had a really traumatic injury right before the Super Bowl and had an opportunity to communicate to literally hundreds of thousands of people that God is good when you're on top of the mountain and God is good when you're in the deepest valley, and so I'm just super grateful for that.
Speaker 2:So I think that's lyrics to one of our worship songs. It may be a song that I wrote it may have inspired a sports ministry is finding its way into the lyrics.
Speaker 4:It really is, but, man, it's just such a unique environment. So oftentimes, when we think about unreached people groups or just people groups that are underserved, we think about impoverished people groups. We don't think about people that have a tremendous amount of wealth and influence. That's right, but that's a lot of the people that God has given me a heart for, and so it's really cool, richard, to hear that you've intersected with that same world, not only in the finance world, but also in the sports world, because you also are super involved still with the green and gold, is that right? Yep?
Speaker 3:So tell us a little bit about that, yeah, and I just have such a place for sports ministry is we've both kind of hit on and just the way it pertains back to how you relate to the Lord I mean, even the things I think about on a business front, I just I relate it back to sports and I think there's different foundational things my parents things. My parents were coaches and so as I evaluate investments and talk about in the investment world, you'll hear me make sports analogies all the time and you can see all my teammates roll their eyes. But it's just, it's how I think it's a sports ministry so helpful for me because it's, in one of the huge ways, how I met the lord. But, yeah, stay involved with baylor baseball, specifically by doing broadcasting and color commentary when the bears play on tv and I've got like and if they believe me, if I'm involved's low level but it's still a joy to be involved and they do a great job with it.
Speaker 3:Come on, but it's kind of like Longhorn Network equivalent for those who are in Austin.
Speaker 3:But it's Big 12 now and ESPN Plus and it's so fun because it's a great way for me to go watch a baseball game.
Speaker 3:I just get to go spend three hours talking about baseball and I know in Austin um sit on the board of one of like the specific regional sections of fellowship of Christian athletes and love FCA, love. Just going and shooting hoops with middle school kids or high school kids at an FCA huddle is what they call kind of their times together, to get together and open up the word and just talk about the Lord and how we get to do everything with excellence and unto, unto the father, and how, hey, you know, playing for the approval of a coach or a parent or this, that and the other is just going to be exhausting and the whiplash of success and failure is going to wear you out. But, man, there's so much joy found in playing from a place of acceptance and performing from the acceptance of your father loves you and then he invites you to use the gifts and talents you have just to have a joy glorifying him and that's the, the call in all of our lives, and so I just love doing that in the context of sports.
Speaker 4:And yeah, man, we could do an entire pod just about sports for sure, and so many lessons that I'm sure that all of us have learned. As you were saying that, one of the things that just popped up into my head and this is just for whoever's listening that their ears perked up when we're talking about sports, whether they got a kid in sports or whatever. But one of the things that I have adopted into my life and I've tried to train other people to do the same thing as well is to not say good job when someone does a good job and I know that sounds really antithetical, but I think it's the good jobs and the attaboys and the pats on the back when you do really well that make the. When you don't get that, it sounds so much worse. And so, instead of a, I mean literally, I'll watch Bijan Robinson play for the Falcons and I won't text him hey, good job. Instead, I'll text him hey, I enjoyed watching you play today.
Speaker 4:Because what that is is just a really clear picture of the same way that the Lord looks at us. He doesn't look at us and he doesn't judge us specifically by hey, you did great. You didn't do great today. Proud of you today Wasn't proud of you yesterday. Instead, god looks at us and he says he delights in us. So to just be able to say to the athlete in your life or I mean performance-based identity happens across genres. This is not just athletics, but specifically to be able to say and rather than hey, good job, it's hey, I just really enjoyed you doing what you did today and I found joy in that. It just takes so much of the pressure off.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 2:I think, whether you're looking at sports or you're looking at high-performing businesses, or you're looking at missionaries who go out and spend years integrating into a culture and earning the trust of a people group, you're put on a platform, you're put on a pedestal and you're given a microphone.
Speaker 2:Right, you're called to be image bearers, you're called to let the light shine and you're kind of plan A right, I mean in God. You go back to the start of the early church, back in the book of Acts. Right, we've been sent out to go plant churches and go build kingdom among the nations. And once we kind of get that at bat, what are we going to say? And are we going to use that at bat to say God's good on the mountain and good in the valley and I feel up towards Jesus, than that I tell people about how I felt or what's going on in my little kingdom, in my little universe, right, and every one of those people that do that, well, they have, I think, a couple of things One, hopefully prayerfully, a daily dependence and spending time in the Word and they've got a great prayer life and that, but they've got people behind them.
Speaker 2:They've got a mentor, they've got a pastor, or they've got someone like Richard, or they've got someone leading a discipleship group or a small group or a life group, a Bible study. Whatever the case is that's keeping them grounded. Maybe a spouse. I think my wife is the best example in my life of like I kind of walk in like hey, guess what I pulled off today, and she's like, oh really, oh really.
Speaker 4:Tell me, really Tell me about you.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly Go? Do the laundry take the?
Speaker 2:trash out and change the baby's diaper. No, it's what God pulled off today, and he let me be a part of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the pastors in Waco that had a huge, profound impact on my life, a guy named Jonathan Bucluda. Jp teaches up at Harris Creek in Waco and he has this epic line. That was so good for me because baseball, such a game of failure I mean the hall of famers failed seven out of ten times. I was an outfielder so I hit, and so 300 batting averages really well and that means you were successful three out of ten times. So that means you're failing a vast majority of the time. Just a dreadfully difficult game baseball is.
Speaker 3:And he has this epic line that just so deeply resonated with me was hey, don't judge obedience or faithfulness by the outcome. It's like we don't have control over the outcome. I mean, look at the apostles and the disciples. The outcome was gruesome crucifixions and upside down crucifixions and stonings and just barbaric stuff.
Speaker 3:But their obedience was so real, their faithfulness was so real and kind of to take that back to a sports standpoint is like hey, Richard, if you're going to be controlled and your, your health mentally is going to be, you know, fluctuate with the success of your batting average or what the stat line looks like, you're just going to be miserable, Like there's. There is a call to excellent Absolutely, but the outcomes are beyond your control, and I think that's the thing with our Christian walk as well is like we should be incredibly excellent as believers with whatever our hands are on, but we should understand that, hey, the outcomes, we might not see many of those until the other side of heaven. And like we, just we just can't be so consumed by the stat sheet, if you will, like I was in my baseball days.
Speaker 2:Well and trust in God with the outcome right, because our limited viewpoint, from where we're sitting and what we're hoping to accomplish and what we think is a good outcome, may not be a good outcome for the overall Absolutely. He may need to take us through several failures before we have a win to get us ready for that win and how to deal with that win and to keep us humble through that win. Right, and whether that's bringing people to Christ or whether that's having an exit in a business or, like you say, the batting average that leads to high school, to college, to maybe the bigs one day, he's got a bigger purpose in it and if you can find the space to be at peace in God's peace, which exceeds all understanding, right, you can trust him with that outcome and know win, lose or draw, it's good for you, the people around you, right, and the journey and the development that you're on I want to ask about. So it's kind of a pivot here. We started talking about South by Southwest, so we are in Austin. There's a couple of big festivals or events that happen here.
Speaker 2:South by Southwest brings tons of people from all over the world, all over the nation, to Austin people from all over the world, all over the nation, to Austin, and a lot of what we think about when we think about missions is going somewhere else and getting involved in that country and that people group. But God's also bringing millions of people to countries where there is a vibrant and healthy Christian church and there's an opportunity to show them a different way of doing life and introduce them to the love of Jesus. And one of the things that got started at South by Southwest was, you know, a Sunday worship service and a program, and you both were involved this year in the Sunday service. So I think Clint opened why don't you tell us about the open? And then Richard, why don't you tell us about what your role was? Cool?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, I think the unique thing about South by, and specifically the Sunday service that the guys pulled off this year which is a shout out to Zach and his team, they really did a great job People are coming to Austin from all over the world for for tech, for film, for music, and some of those people are of faith and some of those people are journeying towards faith and some of those people have are looking for free barbecue, and we did it. We did an event that reached all of those people and so, throughout the course of the programming, sunday Service had different musical artists and different panels that were fantastic. I got an opportunity to do a panel that was called Faith on the Field and it featured we had live with us Bijan Robinson, sam Ocho If you guys don't know who those guys are, go look them up, follow their journey. Sam Acho has a couple different books that he's already written. He's absolutely brilliant. He knows more scripture than I think anybody else I know.
Speaker 4:We got an opportunity to sit on stage and talk about what it looks like to have faith on the field, and I think most people were excited about the name recognition of those guys and being able to hear. You know all about the sports world and how cool it is, but really those guys just sat and they talked about faith and they talked about how to follow Jesus in difficult seasons. You know we talked about dealing with difficulty. Sam Acho had a broken leg at one point in his career. That was the thing that led him down the path of writing a book and becoming an analyst for ESPN, and so it was an amazing panel. We also had Cameron Dicker, who joined us via video, and Charles Amenehu as well, and just incredible to hear those guys be able to articulate their faith.
Speaker 4:What I was the most excited about was being able to look out and see parents with their kids, and their kids are these guys that they look up to. They're like Longhorn legends and they're hearing them talk about Jesus and say, hey, you know that was really cool when I got to play for the Longhorns and it was awesome when I got to play in the NFL, but the thing that's the most impactful and the most significant about my life is that I've given it to Jesus. The most important thing about me is that I'll follow Christ. Love that. And then, richard, what was your role?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the beauty in South by as that's going on I don't know, that was 9 am to 11 am or something like that and then just later on in the day we're having a kind of like a venture capital panel, if you will, where a bunch of Christ followers who are investors into early stage businesses got together to do almost like a Christian shark tank for a bunch of Christ followers who are starting ventures, and so that was just a joy to participate in. I was one of the investors who sat on that panel and before we got into kind of the pitch portion of it all, the investors kind of shared a little bit about hey, what is this concept of faith-driven investing? What you know, are you just a person that loves Jesus, that also happens to work in the investment professional and kind of like? Help us articulate and think about this. And so this is where I'll kind of bridge into some of our kind of thematics for today and the way I have thought about this question, because I've been involved with Faith Driven Investing now for three years and I've just spent a lot of time just kind of taking in people's thoughts and input on it and one of the most profound kind of comprehensions that I've been able to have articulated to me that I'll kind of give back here, comes from a rather predictable text and that is kind of to this question what is faith-driven investing?
Speaker 3:And it's Matthew 25, the parable of the talents. And how the story goes and I'll paraphrase here is Jesus tells this epic parable where a master is going away and he says and he gathers up three servants and says hey, I'm going on a journey for an unknown amount of time and I'm giving you all talents or some unit of currency to steward. To the first one, each according to his own abilities, he gives him five talents to steward. Second one to the final one, a talent, and he says hey, look after these. Well, I'll be back.
Speaker 3:Master comes back sometime down the road and says all right, hey, servants, come, come, give me an accounting for what you did with my possessions. And the first one says master, you gave me five, I went out and did some trading or bartering or whatever it is. And now here are 10. And the master responds and says well done, good and faithful servant, you have been faithful with little. Be entrusted with more. Second one says master, you gave me two, I went out and did some activity. And now here are four talents, I've doubled your talents. And so the master looks at both of these two and it's like well done, good and faithful servants. And you're sitting there.
Speaker 3:For any of my finance bros you're probably like, wow, five to 10, two to four, man, it's a hundred percent returns. And then you know someone will be like, well, how long was he gone? What, what the IRR might be? We don't know how long the master has gone. But then the final one comes up and says master, you gave me one. And he makes some assumptions about his master and he says but I knew you to be a wicked and or maybe it was like a harsh and strong man and I was fearful of kind of how to respond with this task, if you will. And so I went and kind of buried it, hit it. And then here here is your talent back. I didn't earn any return on it. And the master just loses it on the servant and says you, wicked and slothful servant, like you could have at least gone to the bank and earn some interest on my talent, like at least they would give me something that's more than one. Let's take his talent and give it, give it to the one who has 10 already, and we'll throw this person out where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. And so you, at first glance, you look at that and you're like, oh man, this is, this is harsh, and there's some really profound and powerful takeaways, though, I think, that are worth leading into and a reminder.
Speaker 3:This is all about what is the question of faith-driven investing? And the first is let's address that kind of the first thing on the on the end there, with that final servant, because it's so glaring, and it was not that his crime, getting back to our performance-based faith, is that he was a poor investor. The crime of the final servant was that he did not properly know the heart of the master. He was not fully aware of the master's character and heart, and that is our call as believers. Is that, hey, when you're answering the question, what is faith-driven investing?
Speaker 3:The most imperative thing to get right first is what do you have to say about God? Dustin? It reminds me of the Tozer quote from our time together in D group of the most important thing about a man is what they have to say about God and that final servant, because of an incorrect relationship, an incorrect understanding of the master's heart. So for us, an incorrect understanding of God and his heart led him to take activity or inaction that was ultimately unfaithful. The master looked at and said this is just not it.
Speaker 3:The other two, and so this is now getting back into the and said this is just not it. The other two. And so this is now getting back into the question again what is faith driven investing? Look at the other two. Interestingly enough, we don't see in scripture what they go do to double their talents. And so from five to 10, you know what did that trading look like? What did they invest in? Quote unquote.
Speaker 3:And I think there is reason for that ambiguity.
Speaker 3:And why God leaves that almost quote unquote, mysterious or unanswered because I think that helps answer the question of what is faith-driven investing is because to Dustin Elliott and to you, clint, and to me, that answer looks different.
Speaker 3:To me, to answer the question of what is faith-driven investing, it is getting down on your knees and saying, god, you have entrusted me with something and, as opposed to being prescriptive or presumptuous or adding to where the scriptures aren't clear on, it is then saying what would you have me do to go be a faithful steward of this and that then starts to inform hey, what is faith-driven investing? And then the way it carries itself out in different iterations, whether you be a public markets investor, whether you be a private markets investor, whether you be a private markets investor, what have you? Whether you run a small business or a large business, whatever the you know, or whether you're just a faithful employee, the applications present themselves differently for all of us, but I think it's just helpful to start with the Lord's word and just kind of wrestle around and process a little bit with, yes, a rather predictable text, but something extremely helpful to dive into.
Speaker 2:Okay, I did not know you were going to go there. All right, we got to pull on this thread of the parables that you just mentioned, because I have a finance background and love to study economies and look at contextually what was going on in certain parts of the world in biblical times and why was it written this way right.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've got to understand it because we read through today's modern lens and where am I in this story by nature. But really, what we need to do is go back and what was God saying through these people?
Speaker 2:in their time at that point. Okay, so I'm going to give you some math to help put some context on this story. Eight talents, okay. What was a talent? First of all? A talent was about a 60 to 80, roughly pound bag of silver. Okay, that's a lot of money, right? You walk around with a bench press amount of silver, right? So a 60 to 80 pound bag. So for this wealthy man that went on this business trip and he leaves eight talents, right? So a 60 to 80 pound bag. So for this wealthy man that went on this business trip and he leaves eight talents, okay.
Speaker 2:Now, if you look through the Bible and you look at the, there's a couple other parables that give context, one of them being the unmerciful servant. If one guy was worth eight talents and you can do some math and you can figure out that the GDP of the nation of Israel right, the gross domestic product, how much was the whole nation of Israel producing at this time? Was about 1,500 talents a year, wow, okay. So if I take eight divided by 1,500, then I get the amount of the total nation's kind of net worth, if you will, that this guy was worth. And if you take Elon or Bezos and you divide it by the GDP of the nation of the United States today, you get the same fraction 0.005, 0.005. So this biblical story in the context of Israel, this guy was the same amount wealthy. So this would be Elon or Bezos, leaving their whole net worth to three guys. That's how big this was. So when you think one talent, well, this guy just had an insignificant amount. No, that was not an insignificant amount of money.
Speaker 4:Which kind of makes you want to give a little bit more grace to the dude that was terrified and went and buried it. It does a little bit.
Speaker 2:It does a little bit, yes. I mean if he had no experience in investing at all and he was given this massive sum of money? Preserve principle.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:But the point is also well received. God's not trusting us with resources, whether they be financial or time or talent, right Any of the group. He's not trusting us with those to dig a hole in the backyard and bury it in. He's trusting us with those to go build kingdom with it Come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that you just painted the picture of the significance of the size of the pool of money we're talking about here, just because it helps kind of frame the vastness of the story, if you will. And once again, as we talked about earlier, this is not a performance-based type thing. The Lord doesn't look at us and say I need your money. The kingdom and the gospel only advances to the final frontier because of so-and-so's money or your ability to invest. Well, or even this you know, particular church development program or whatever it happens, like the dude paves his streets with gold, as revelation talks about. I mean, like this is a God who says I love you, I want to invite you into my redemptive work.
Speaker 3:Here are some helpful examples and outlines in the Bible of what that looks like. And it's knowing my heart and character well and then, from that freedom, going out and participating, not making false assumptions about being a scary God or just a ruthless God, and then, out of fear, acting like we are. We are invited into a joy, you know, based faith, where we get to go, walk faithfully. And I think that is so key to understanding as you start to wrestle with this concept of like. What is faith driven? Investing in lockstep with the father's will.
Speaker 2:Give us some ideas. So you've heard so many stories and pitches Like what are some of the cooler, more interesting themes, opportunities, how are people coming together, for example? I know there are networks of people that are coming together to do this. Tell us some of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I'll give you some different like organizations and their investment philosophies and then maybe some portfolio companies underneath those organizations. So the first one is large venture capital fund multiple billions of dollars under management in the San Francisco Bay Area kind of the home of VC Silicon Valley, and I think they're at five plus billion in AUM is Goodwater Capital, and Chiwa Chen and Eric Kim are the guys that are managing partners at Goodwater capital and she watched in and Eric Kim are the guys that are managing partners at good water and they would actually say, hey guys, I I don't want to invest only in Christ followers. I want to be there in the boardroom with a significant amount of ownership when the next Zuckerberg is processing a massive decision at a, at a company like Facebook, when there is a large secular organization that is going to have ripple effects into all of life. I want to be there in the boardroom as that remnant the Lord's raised up to speak.
Speaker 3:And so there's one philosophy. There's Goodwater Capital, Another fund, Sovereign's Capital, kind of headquartered everywhere as kind of like a brother-sister organization to faith-driven investor. Sovereign says, hey, we want to explicitly invest only into Christ followers and here's why. And they would say well, we believe that inside of a business, just like a sports team, as we've been talking about, one of the greatest competitive advantages, if not the greatest competitive advantage, is company culture. Whether you are a two person startup building in your garage to a very large, significant, you know publicly traded company like a sale point here in Austin, Christ followers, because of their servant leadership and because of their heart for the gospel and their care of employees and human flourishing and dignity and seeing the value of that Genesis, you know, view of work, should set forth company cultures that flourish and excel in a way that other company leaders just don't have a framework or a barometer for, like a Christ follower might. And so there could be alpha there by investing in those businesses. And so what sovereigns does is, across five asset classes at venture capital stage, super early on, you know, a company raising a million dollars, seed round or series a, they want to invest in a Christ following founder. The low middle market private equity space. So a little bit more mature kind of maybe raise some capital in the past, you know, two to $10, $10 million in owner's earnings. Ebitda is like the kind of famous finance word for it, Investing in Christ followers at that stage, real estate, multifamily, industrial, commercial real estate, whatever it might be, investing in other private equity fund managers and then all the way up to the public markets that philosophy across their five asset classes that they invest in, has held true and it has proven.
Speaker 3:Hey, you don't have to have this kind of like Christian sympathy card, of like well, because they're believers, we accept a little bit less return but you can actually flourish and succeed and outpace fellow fund managers because of your biblical values, not in because of your biblical values, not in spite of your biblical values. And I mean what they're doing in the public markets and that is what's so cool is this is proving out in the largest public markets. Ecosphere is like they're outperforming S and P 500 and you know, massive year at the end of 2023 in terms of what took place in the S and P 500, probably because of the you know, say, seven largest kind of mega cap stocks, but like 500 basis points because of looking at company culture is an incredibly real and robust measure of what turns into success.
Speaker 2:So faith-driven investor and faith-driven entrepreneur. There's books out. It's a huge network. There's over a hundred countries. Richard, by the way, is the podcast host for their podcast. They did a conference recently. We hosted a watch party here at Austin Ridge and man, one of the coolest things that I heard on that and learned is talking about multifamily right and kind of the space of building apartments and then putting people in those apartments and right, there's very much an easy kind of repeatable process there. You've got rents coming in, you've got recurring revenue, it's investable, you can discount the cash flows, you can project, et cetera. But what about building that and then putting the property manager and even some residents in that community who love Jesus and then are leading Bible studies and bringing people together and facilitating fellowship? Talk about that, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really glad you called that out. So the video story we did on that for the Faith Driven Investor podcast is a group out of Birmingham, alabama, called Weldon Field. Chuck Weldon is the managing partner there and it's exactly that philosophy of saying, hey, the Lord has a deep, deep care for a sense of place. I mean, look at I'm in Deuteronomy right now, but look at all of the Old Testament and just the Israelites longing for the promised land and that kind of this like sense of place that God tees up and one of the also the greatest things we are called to show as Christians. It's just that like Christian hospitality and no better asset class to carry that out in. And then where people spend the bulk of their time, whether that be at work or at home. But commercial real estate allows and enables that opportunity to promote human flourishing.
Speaker 3:And then to get into the Unreached podcast side of this, there's a great organization based out of Dallas called Apartment Life, and so what Weldon Field does is they take the Apartment Life model and then put it in place where it's. Hey, we bought this portfolio of multifamily units. Let's say it has 500 units in it, and for every 100 units we take a chaplain who loves the Lord like crazy, and we move them into building one or building two, whatever it is. And it's just, it's remarkable what is possible, because not only do you have someone on site caring for residents, that leads to higher resident retention, which ultimately leads to less occupancy, you know vacancy time, which leads to higher returns, so the cash flow is just more tight and pure, but then you've got higher resident satisfaction and then opportunities to share the gospel where these folks that are living in these apartment complexes as almost missionaries in training before going to the field or, if their field is just called, here domestically in the United States, or caring for the immigrant who might live in these apartment communities, there's an opportunity for gospel engagements and it's truly powerful. And so you've got something that is good for bottom line.
Speaker 3:That is also a sharing of the gospel, and there are metrics that are used to say, hey, how many residents did you talk to this week? How many you know meaningful conversations? Did you have to have that kind of like number of residents? You have to have that kind of like number of residents you talked to. Beyond that, how many gospel engagements did you have? How many times did you get to formally share faith. How many people have you brought to church with you? How many people are partaking in your Bible study? And all of a sudden, now your, your sense of home, your sense of place, becomes a mission field. And it's not to beat people over the head with the Bible, it's to truly care for them and bring them groceries and show them Christian love and hospitality. But what an opportunity to put that into a real estate fund to boost returns but then also to care for people well, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 2:Love that Okay. So tell us about Faith Driven, the network, the size and scope. How do I get involved? Let's say that I'm a business person, or even a founder, or I want to be involved in a network of other people that are like me. I want to learn from them, I want to share what I know with them. I want to be involved in a network of other people that are like me. I want to learn from them. I want to, I want to share what I know with them. I want to mentor or be mentored. Where can I get involved? I know it's, I know where you're global. I mean, tell us about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you've mentioned now the faith-driven entrepreneur side and the faith-driven investor side. So faithdrivenentrepreneurorg, faithdriveninvest org and the ways we say we serve people are three c's content, community and connections and so our desire is to produce world-class content on both the entrepreneur side and investor side. And that's you guys get it with. This podcast is telling stories and drawing people in to tell the stories of the way the lord has worked just beautifully and powerfully in the marketplace, whether that be here in the states.
Speaker 3:But more than anything, it's those international stories in places like africa or southeast asia that are so special to tell when we talk about these front doors to the nations one of these excellent businesses, like I think of a Grab in Southeast Asia, which is the Uber of Indonesia, and it just Anthony Tan, the CEO of Grab, is just essentially hey, I do this with excellence because of my Christian faith, and what an opportunity when you have that large of a tech giant over there being run by a faith-driven entrepreneur. So content, community connection. So we tell stories via the content, draw people in to hear from other Christ followers living it out day to day. Rubber meets the road, clint, to use your phrase. And then community is saying hey, let's bring people together to process this content together. There will never be something, you know, such thing as a Lone Ranger Christian.
Speaker 3:If you're an entrepreneur, I'd imagine you're out there and you're a little bit tired and lonely building just what feels like toiling in darkness, like get together with other founders who get your story, who understand what it's like to have to fire someone when you miss a revenue target. Who understand the pressures of oh my goodness, we just raised money and there are just so many headwinds in this market and we're getting outpaced by a competitor. Get together and process through these things with people who understand it and get it. I think a lot of times, what happens in the church is we have these situations where it feels like man on Sundays. It doesn't feel like the people I worship with understand my work.
Speaker 3:But then I go to work on Monday through Friday and it doesn't feel like those people understand my faith, like, hey, we've got this beautiful opportunity to say hey, not to ever replace the local church, but say hey, local church, there are culture shapers in your pews who are entrepreneurs building amazing solutions that might just be really cool restaurants in your backyard, or they might be scalable tech solutions that are going to go global. So that's the community aspect of hey. Find your brothers and sisters to journey with and to and to share those burdens with. And it's same thing on the investor side. Find other fund managers. Find other people who have had liquidity events and are just asking questions like God, how would you have me steward what I have here, asking questions like, not how much should we keep, or this, that and the other, but how much is enough, father? And then, beyond that line, how can we steward that? People that will hold you accountable? It's really powerful when we see stories of folks opening up their balance sheets and saying, hey, you know what it's all God's in the first place. We don't need to be weird and hidden about our resources. Let's open it up and just have real conversations about God. How would you use the capital and the numbers on these balance sheets for your glory.
Speaker 3:And then the last portion is connections, and that's where we've talked about a lot about this already is that let's get the Christ following investor thinking about how to back the Christ following entrepreneur at whatever scale and asset class that might be Early stage businesses, transitioning and selling. Oh, my goodness, we have such an opportunity in the kind of low middle market small business era of the world as baby boomers reach retirement age and transition these businesses they've built that are cash-flowing machines into the next generation. Oh, what a remarkable opportunity we have as faith-driven investors to step in and say, hey, I would love to preserve and keep promoting human flourishing, like you've been doing in this small business. And yeah, there's return opportunities there. And so it's just fun to see faith-driven investors coming off the sidelines saying I wanna inherit all of the great garbage companies here in Austin, texas, or septic businesses, whatever it might be, and love the people that are working on the front lines of these organizations. And so that's it. Content, community Connections, faithdrivenentrepreneurorg, faithdriveninvestororg.
Speaker 3:And so it's been special to see people kind of latch on to this and be like this is my tribe, like my work is my faith isn't just a Sunday morning thing. It can be lived out daily in the mission field that is, you know, my workplace. Your pastor here said it to us one time. One of those discipleship groups we were in Dustin, brad Thomas was like I envy the believer who isn't in vocational ministry and Brad is a gifted pastoral, you know, teacher, I'm grateful the Lord hasn't exactly where he is, but he was like but my opportunity to interact with non-believers is at the gas pump he goes.
Speaker 3:You folks that are working in the marketplace, your opportunity to interact with unbelievers is daily and it's also in the way you conduct business with them. Matthew 5, 16,. Let your light shine before others so they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. What an opportunity, as you love on customers, suppliers, vendors, those you're negotiating contracts with, as you're doing a deal and coming to terms. What an opportunity to have such an open-hand posture and say, man the Lord has glorified in just faithful steps in the marketplace.
Speaker 2:Those are some good, good words, man. I love you. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for the time you're spending with Faith Driven, for the time you're spending hosting that podcast. Guys, Go download that one as well. You will love their business. Take and spin on kind of how we're getting to unreached people groups and, yeah, as we do here. Would you please pray for everybody on our way out?
Speaker 3:Oh God, we love you and Jesus. You are just so kind that you allow us the opportunity to participate in your good works, your gospel movement and progression across the globe. And so, as three guys sit here in Austin Texas and talk about it, we humbly say that, hey, we know we are, but just a tiny portion of it. But you've called us to be faithful and we're in the finance sector, we're worship leaders and we disciple athletes, and so there are ways that you are working here in Austin Texas that have effects far beyond ways we will ever see, and so we just look forward and rejoice about the day where Revelation talks about every tribe, tongue and nation comes together and just sits before your throne, jesus. So help it always be about you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for this great conversation today, thank you for this podcast and the way it is encouraging and equipping other believers to go. Get in the game. And so would you help all faith-driven entrepreneurs, all faith-driven investors out there, whether they be moms, dads, college students, retirees wherever you'd have them, father to understand that, hey, let your prayers have feet. As Dustin just said, get in the game, get off the sidelines. Look at all that you've given us, father to be stewards. Time, talent treasures all of it. So we may bring just joy to you, father, and greater joy to us, as we just get to know your heart more as we work in your purposes. So we thank you for this time, Amen.
Speaker 2:And amen. Thank you for listening to Unreached. Our sincere desire is that what you've heard today will cause you to see the mission of God differently and your role in it more clearly. If this adds value for you and we hope it does would you please rate and review the podcast wherever you listen. Also, share with your family, your friends, your church, your life group, small group, d group, wherever you do life, and if you want to connect with us, find us on Instagram at unreachedpodcast, or email us at unreachedpodcast at gmailcom. You.